What do you think?

I really am interested in what people from other countries think. Please keep it civil. If you don't care, say that. Thanks

2nd presidential debate comeback politics 1349322641

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  • 5

    What do other countries think..about the presidential debate?

    I'm not interested in it one little bit, but then again i'm not into politics where ever it is, England, USA, Antartica, doesn't bother me.

    Except..i want this guy to win, American's, PLEASE VOTE THIS GUY!!

    How could you guys not vote for this guy, free ponies for all American's, and he'll go back in time and kill the baby Hitler!!!
    VIRMIN 2012

    Your response is kinda what I expected and can understand. Ps is your clip from the onion??? That guy is awesome and wish he would had been at the debate.
    - johnecash October 12, 2012, 2:27 pm
    not sure who the clip is from
    i heard about that guy last night from Russel Howards good news, but the clip from his show isn't on youtube yet, what he said about it was so funny!!
    - Fail4424 October 12, 2012, 2:29 pm
    As far as I know, he was a real "candidate." Certainly on the fringe and his campaign is a joke, but he was real.
    - Madstyx October 19, 2012, 7:30 am
  • 4

    1st Presidential Debate: Romney won because of two reasons. He didn't care about looking presidential and he lied. A lot. But he did "win."

    VP Debate: Biden was great. Ryan was alright, but kept dodging questions. Biden was able to do what Obama couldn't because he doesn't need to look presidential. He just needs to call out the opposition when they patently lie or dodge answers. Which he did. The moderator for this debate was also much more... apt. Sorry Jim Lehrer.

    I could not agree more with you on the last part. The moderator for this debate was a lot better. Thanks for you two cents.
    - johnecash October 12, 2012, 3:02 pm
  • 3

    I honestly don't care at all... I'm an American and I'm probably gonna vote for Obama just cause I think Romney is a douche.

    • Disco
    • October 12, 2012, 5:37 pm
    I agree they both ass hats. But did you see uncle joe (joe bideon) last night? There was a wonderful example of grade A douchebagery
    - johnecash October 12, 2012, 6:02 pm
    Douchebaggery? He just had the balls not to pretend to be polite whenever Ryan lied.
    - Ertrov October 13, 2012, 10:07 pm
    Like I said, douchebaggery. Just think if he so animated for the death about US ambassadors as he was against Paul Ryan.
    - johnecash October 15, 2012, 9:31 am
    Now you're just getting desperate. I shouldn't be surprised though. Ever since he kicked Ryan's ass in the debate, Republicans have had to resort to criticisms like "He was rude" or "He laughed too much at Ryan" since they can't find anything to criticize about what he said.
    - Ertrov October 15, 2012, 5:01 pm
    I have not even started with what he said. I just wanted to start with what an ass he was. Now lets see if you are more faithful to the truth or are just a democratic fan boy. He acted like a clown, not the Vice President. I understand that to some when some one with an apposing thought speaks your first reaction is to LOL, but that is what a child does, not a man or even better yet the VP of the US.

    You think he won the debate? Well 1/2 of the country would disagree with you. On the other hand, no credible news source has come out and said Obamination won the first one. Please try to be more than a fan boy who just wants to yell out any crazy thing that comes to mind and hopes some of it sticks. I beg you not to be a tool for the Democratic machine that thinks the government knows what to do with your money more than you do. Obama has lied to us so many times, and you want more???

    You are better than that.
    - johnecash October 15, 2012, 5:18 pm
    Well, thank you at least for proving my point further about you having no legitimate criticisms beyond thinking Biden was a big meanie.
    - Ertrov October 15, 2012, 5:22 pm
    I love you liberals. I will happily move onto point 2, the lies of uncle joe, once you adress the first issue. Uncle joes performance is a wonderful example of how the administration broke its promise for bipartisan government. Obama and his administration would rather laugh at some one with a different point of view than listen, as president Obamanation promised. And yet you still want to be a democratic fanboy.
    - johnecash October 15, 2012, 7:18 pm
    Bipartisanship is impossible in this country with the current two party system. As long as we keep labeling each other liberal or conservative,we can't fix the problems. Instead of hating each other's guts, why don't we work together. And about the whole Obama/Romney/Biden/Ryan lied thing all politicians lie it is a fact get over it.
    - serpentrepent October 17, 2012, 2:52 pm
    Bipartisanship is not impossible. Romney did it when he was a republican governor of a democratic state.
    - johnecash October 17, 2012, 2:59 pm
    If we look at the numbers from romneys history and who put forward each bill you'll see that his name was only on about 1/10 bills and or acts that he claimed credit for it wasn't him work with the Demo's it wasn't the demos working with him it was the demos pushing bills and acts through and romney doing the same.
    Obama is no better though. He made promises and broke them in office all politicians do it bipartisianship is impossible in a true form. Bipartisinship is not pushing bills through a legislature full of the opposite party.
    - serpentrepent October 17, 2012, 3:03 pm
    We know Obama can't work with the other side. As of now Romney's track record suggest he can. So I must ask more of the same (Obama) and hope for better results? If so please see albert einstein definition of insanity. Or we can try and go with a man who knows how to balance a budget?
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 9:45 am
    We know the other side can't work with Obama. Obama tried, vehemently, for most of his term, to work together, reaching numerous times across the aisle. He was met with, factually and literally, the most obstructionist congressional minority OF ALL TIME. Literally. Ever. By a long shot. Romney is part of that minority (the party). The entire Republican party made it a point in the last 4 years to forego allowing help for the American people in favor of attempting to make Obama look bad. That is not Obama's fault, nor is it Bipartisanship on the part of the Republicans.

    Furthermore, many politicians lie, but Romney and Ryan lie A LOT. And a lot more than Biden/Obama do. Romney lied so much this past debate, he eventually had to be called out by the moderator on one. I mean, come on now.
    - Logos385 October 18, 2012, 12:29 pm
    ----We know the other side can't work with Obama.
    That is a wonderful point. We need a president who can work with both sides. Romney has a proven track record of being able to do just that.

    ----Furthermore, many politicians lie, but Romney and Ryan lie A LOT. And a lot more than Biden/Obama do. Romney lied so much this past debate, he eventually had to be called out by the moderator on one. I mean, come on now.
    Yes obama said there act of terror. Is that the same thing as calling them terrorist? Did you forget that Obama said it was not an organised attack but a reaction by a mob due to the Muhammad video?


    <script src="http://player.ooyala.com/player.js?height=360&embedCode=p1aXZ5NTr4S5qwXZZOs6qLjeC-Pu4CgW&width=480&deepLinkEmbedCode=p1aXZ5NTr4S5qwXZZOs6qLjeC-Pu4CgW&video_pcode=Q2cHA61kNSkkZTQQ6grpeuAc28Oq"></script>



    Well what did he say? Did he change his mind from a to b and back to a? Or did he use a broad word that could have several meanings. Does act of terror mean terrorist attack? Not according to President Obama at the UN.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 2:52 pm
    Oh I have one little thing here to say. I dont want to get met with any comments just stating the fact that The republicans even said that there job is to make sure that obama doesnt get reelected. I dont remember when it was said but i believe it was the house or senate that said it. To be fair though I think all of them do that when they are going up for reelection anyway
    - buddyfoeva October 18, 2012, 3:57 pm
    The moderator later admitted that Romney was right about the Libya topic and that Obama didn't call it an act of terror right away. Or are we conveniently ignoring that part?
    - casper667 October 19, 2012, 5:45 am
    It is their job to make sure he is gone so that he can no longer lead our country down the path that Greece took.
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 10:04 am
    Liberals ignore that part.
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 10:21 am
  • 3

    I think that the fact that the more known third party candidates like Gary Johnson weren't able to speak at the debates says a lot about not only our political system but how big of a threat the two parties see them as. I think that if a libertarian candidate were to speak in the debates the people both democrat and republican would vote libertarian.

    A point Ron Paul supported.
    - johnecash October 21, 2012, 3:02 pm
  • 2

    As an enlisted in the USMC, Mitt Romney gets my vote. Basically because I don't want to see us lose allies that are important to us (Israel) because the president has something better to do like go on a talk show. Regardless of political affiliation, you have to admit that that was extremely unprofessional. And another thing is that I don't want to go to war with a formidable enemy and not be able to be proficient in that war because of military cuts. We need the best military because no one likes us. But no one liking us is for another debate. Not this one.
    Marine Corps Wallpaper by Chiro Taq

    And that's just to be a smartass :P

    • exile
    • October 20, 2012, 12:25 pm
    Happy to see my marine brothers know how to vote.
    - johnecash October 20, 2012, 1:44 pm
  • 1

    The most recent debate was knock-down Obama destruction, in my opinion.

    Not sure knock down for Obama is what I would call it. The man only has excuses as to why he promised to cut the debt in half, but instead he doubled it. Same with gas prices. When Obama took office, gas was half the price it was today.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 9:40 am
  • 1

    I dont care.

    • Goober
    • October 17, 2012, 9:46 pm
    You should if you live in the US and are of age to vote. This election is all about your money, jobs, and if you think you or the government know how to best spend your money.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 9:41 am
    I dont live in america.
    - Goober October 18, 2012, 11:34 am
    Then your response is acceptable. Where are you from? Are you speaking for just yourself when you say you don't care or are you speaking for your country? I enjoy hearing what other countries think about the US politics.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 11:50 am
  • 1

    Two party system... Who cares who you vote for, it's all the same shit in a two party system like Americas. Vote for whichever one has the best hairline.

    One party wants your money because they don't think you know what to do with it. The other party wants you to keep your money because they know the government does not know what is best to do with your money.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 9:36 am
    But which candidate has the best hairline?
    - poopiteepoop October 18, 2012, 12:05 pm
    Ron Paul for the win.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 3:39 pm
  • 1

    Well heres my response to this

    but seriously its dumb. I wont vote for romney because his views are not in my best interest. if i had to vote it would be obama. I dont plan on voting though. I wont vote for the lesser of the two evils. Obama just has more things that i agree with than romney

    oh and i just saw this video and thought it was funny

    So you like the job Obama is doing and want four more years of it? You like that gas is twice as expensive today as it was when he took office or that the deficit that he promised to cut in half, he doubled? Or how about the Obama lie that he would get the DEA to back off any state that has legalized pot? Or that in Obama's economy 50% of college graduates can't find a job? Or do you like paying higher taxes under Obama? Or do you like that more Americans are on food stamps than any other president? Or that the unemployment rate that he promised would be below 6% is no where near that? Of all the lies he told us, i like what he said but thats the problem. What he says and what he does are two different things all together. It's sad when people don't vote, people have died for you to have the right.
    Please watch the following video. Even the daily show thinks he can't be trusted.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 9:18 am
    I feel like you said didnt listen to a thing i put. I never i said i like everything he has done. I said his views right now are more comparable to mine than romney. Also my taxes would be higher if romney was voted for from what romney is saying so yeah. I dont know if your just a republican and thats all you care about or what. Its pointless to try and argue from your past comments up there. For gas It is about the same here where i live as it was when he took office. yeah sure it has went up and down but still. To be honest i wish ron paul would have won the republican party. He would be someone i would vote for. But no matter who you vote for they are lying. When they get in there they face opposition in the house and senate. Its hard to get anything done in this country with our politicians that are just BSing us all the time but since so many people vote based on a party you will keep getting the same fucking thing.
    - buddyfoeva October 18, 2012, 12:23 pm
    The government does not set gas prices. That is the oil industry. Obama is for cutting subsidies to them, as they are unbelievably profitable, Romney is not.

    I don't support the legalization of marijuana, let's not discuss that further here.

    This is not "Obama's" economy. It was handed to him worse than it is now.

    Very, very few people pay higher taxes under Obama. The middle class got tax cuts. 95+% of the American people were either unaffected by any tax increase or got tax cuts under the Obama administration. It's a bad economy, food stamps are expected. Would you rather people not eat?

    Obama hasn't been allowed, by the most obstructionist minority of all time, to pass any of his jobs bills. It's not surprising that Unemployment hasn't gotten under 6%.
    - Logos385 October 18, 2012, 12:34 pm
    Historically taxes have been lower under Republicans vs Democrats. The reason being Republicans want a smaller government, Democrats want a larger government. Republicans think you know whats best for your money, and the Democrats think the government knows what best for your money.
    The gas in your town is the same now as it was four years ago? Where do you live? I would love to look that fact up for my self on the net.
    I agree Ron Paul is the man. I too wish he was the candidate. But he lost. I am not voting for Romney as much as I am voting against Obama. I don't know about you, but I am not happy with how the last 4 years have gone. To vote him in again and hope things will change this time is well . . . I think ill use the words of a man much smarter than my self to explain this one;
    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

    ― Albert Einstein
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 3:01 pm
    You are correct the president does not control gas prices but he can influence it . . . A LOT.
    According to Obama's Energy Secretary Stephen Chu told The Wall Street Journal with regard to gas prices and dependence on fossil fuel: "Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe." In 2008, candidate Obama blamed the rise in gas prices on President Bush and his administration. This is what he said: “The President frankly has not had an energy policy ... our demand is badly outstripping supply with China and India.”
    So both the President and I disagree that the president can change gas prices. Obama went on to state in an interview with Steve Harwood of MSNBC that he agreed with Chu that rising gas prices would be a good thing because it would force citizens to drive less and look to alternative forms of energy. He preferred “a gradual adjustment” in pricing as opposed to a rapid spike. The president could cut gas prices in 1/2 over night if he wanted to by opening up reserve oil supplies, drilling and fracking, or helping and not stopping the keystone pipeline.

    If you support what the president promises he will do has no bearing on whether he lied or told the truth. None the less we spends millions and millions on a "drug war" every day. Yet high school students are reporting about the same percentage of drug use today as they were in 1978. Millions of $$$ down the drain and what do we have to show for it? A prisonsystem that houses more "criminals" than any other country in the world.

    I know this is hard for some to understand but BUSH IS NOT AND HAS NOT BEEN PRESIDENT IN ALMOST 4 YEARS. I miss Harry S Truman. He was the man who said the buck stops here. A phrase that is very foreign to the Blaimerincheif. The national debt that Obama has run up with disagree with you that we are doing better. The low interest rates would disagree with you. The stagnate unemployment numbers would disagree with you. If the last four years were not convincing enough, President Obama proved during Tuesday night’s debate that he has no clue how the economy works. His stated economic proposals are nothing but reheated talking points from 2008, and they are as unrealistic now as they were then.

    Despite his falsely professed faith in markets, the President shows by his actions and policy proposals that he really believes the only way economies thrive is when they are directed by government policy-makers and bureaucrats who are empowered to choose the “correct” economic outcomes.

    For example, the first questioner Tuesday night asked how the candidates would assure that he has a job after he graduates college in 2014. Obama’s telling answer was that he would punish companies that offshore, further subsidize college loans, invest “in solar and wind and biofuels, energy efficient cars,” raise taxes on the rich, and increase spending on roads, bridges and schools.

    He has actually accomplished all of those things except raising taxes on the rich. What are the results? The slowest economic recovery in U.S. history.

    When Mitt Romney explained how bankruptcy works, Obama demonstrated his stunning ignorance by saying Romney wanted GM to go bankrupt “without providing them any way to stay open.” Actually, allowing companies to stay open is what Chapter 11 bankruptcy (which both GM and Chrysler filed, and which Romney advocated) does. A President who thinks that only government subsidies can keep struggling companies open is a President who will squander taxpayer money on needless corporate bailouts, as Obama has.

    On taxes, Obama demonstrated total ignorance of the historical fact that lowering rates across the board can stimulate economic growth. He asserted that by keeping capital gains and other rates low, “we’re not going to get money that way.” In fact, it would mean more government revenue.

    A President so completely ignorant about basic economics produces what we have seen during Obama’s tenure: an economy prevented by government policy from realizing its full potential. Romney’s smarter policies would unleash the economic potential that has been suppressed by Obama’s suffocating practices.

    The price of living has gone way up, gas going up by 100% being an example, since the failure in chief took office. Of course we as a country are paying less taxes, we as a country are making less taxable in come to pay taxes on. For this reason there are more people on food stamps today than ever in the US history. Thats sad you want the food stamp record holder to give us four more years of food stamps. I would prefer four years of a job.

    -------YOU SAID; Obama hasn't been allowed, by the most obstructionist minority of all time, to pass any of his jobs bills. It's not surprising that Unemployment hasn't gotten under 6%.
    Its the presidents job to work with people. If he cant work with the congress and senate we have, no matter how good his ideas may be to you, he won't get anything done. Thats what we have seen. Except that the democrats had a SUPERMAJORITY for the first 2 years of Obama's presidency. So am I to understand not only can he NOT work with Republicans, but he also can't even work with his own party?
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 3:28 pm
    Ill start out first with gas. When bust was in office it peaked at over $4 a gallon Sure it went down but it was overcorrected and quickly went back up close to $3. I am paying about 350 for gas Sure it increased But Atleast I Wont have to expect it to be $2 one day and $450 one day like it was then. I know what i need for gas and can budget not that hard. But with republicans they lower the tax rate for people who make more money. I was not raised with money. I came from low starts to say the least. However I feel i should pay the same tax rate as anyone else and not less as romney has said. However I can't say more than that as I have busy schedule and almost no time off because of school and work and trying to start my own business so I have quit paying attention to each person. That and I just get tired of hearing the bullshit each one says. When in the first debate i cought a little bit of it and all i heard was romney lying. But you can expect they to lie to get elected. Ill finally vote when the candidates actually start proving they can do something and are competent. Ron Paul would have been that but well he's out so ill just save my vote this year. Also for having another person to quote here is my guy.
    “However [political parties] may now and then answer popular ends, they are likely in the course of time and things, to become potent engines, by which cunning, ambitious, and unprincipled men will be enabled to subvert the power of the people and to usurp for themselves the reins of government, destroying afterwards the very engines which have lifted them to unjust dominion.” - George Washington

    That just shows that even our first president didnt think parties were a good idea
    - buddyfoeva October 18, 2012, 3:53 pm
    For everyone to have the same tax rate would be silly. The rich should always pay more. I wonder, how well do you understand the tax system? That is not a trick question, and I do not claim to be a tax lawyer. But I do know the difference between the capital gains tax and the income tax. Are you familiar with the difference and why they are different? When it comes to the income tax, Romney pay a much larger percent than you or I did. Take this to heart, as a small business man myself (real estate appraiser) historically the Republicans are the party is for small business and small government. Not so much for the democrats.

    You can not "save" a vote. You may only waste it. Too many people have died, some very close friends of mine, fighting for your right to vote. I would rather you vote for Obama than "save" a vote if only to honor all the men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice so that you can vote. If you don't vote, then you have nothing to complain about when who ever wins or looses because you didn't vote.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 4:07 pm
    I also have friends that have served in the military and know people who have died. However as for my vote and my friends would not want me to vote for someone that would not truly convey my beliefs into office would not be what they would want. Yes they serve and give us the ability to vote but would they want you to vote for someone that you do not believe in? I dont really complain now sure It sucks sometimes but i get over it from the view of both candidates they both have someway to fuck up my life one way or another. So i just get over it and live life.
    For The taxes I can't say I am the best person to interpret it but when the tax cuts romney proposes gives the upper class 20% reduction and only 12% for the middle and lower class something isnt right. Those numbers aren't mine they are by people that are much smarter than me in tax systems. Paul Krugman is a nobel prize winner in economy and says that romneys plan won't work. So i tend to look at the smarter people and the numbers they produce. But as of right now things could change so Ill leave it at that the tax system is fucked and they need to look at it thorughly and maybe even completely redo it to make it work in the long run. But thats just my oppinion.
    - buddyfoeva October 18, 2012, 4:21 pm
    As a vet I can tell you I do want you to vote. I want everyone to vote. Its about getting your chance to. . . well vote on who you think does the best job. Not vote for the person you like. Too many people confuse this as a popularity contest.
    Also according to Romney the rich are doing fine and can afford to pay a little more.
    I lost faith in the Nobel Prize when they gave it to Obama for being a black president or their most recent one . . the EU. Am I the only only who who finds it ironic that a Nobel Peace Prize winner orders drone attacks?
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 4:38 pm
    The keystone pipeline is terrible for many, many reasons, but I would rather not discuss that here. As for gas prices in general, sure, the President can moderately influence gas prices. Obama is all for drilling more, using reserves, and using alternative forms of energy. All of those things help gas prices go down. Furthermore, Oil Companies are turning record profits quarter after quarter: they are jacking up the price despite what the reality in America is like. If they actually brought prices to what they should be, things would be much lower... but instead the price is being consistently artifically raised. That is not Obama's fault.

    Our high prison population has to do with a lot of things, including our gigantic wealth gap. However, I agree that the war on drugs has been managed terribly, and is bad in principle. I do not support the legalization of Marijuana, but I think (still deciding fully) I support its decriminalization. I don't support the "war on drugs" as it has been handled. And I'm not sure Obama quite does either.

    I disagree with almost all of what you said. It only took 8 years for Bush to turn a surplus into a gigantic debt. It takes longer to fix things than it does to ruin them (that has always been true).

    He has accomplished not nearly all of those things, at least to the extent that he wishes. Remember, most obstructionist minority ever. EVER. And this is not the slowest economic recovery in history. That is factually incorrect.

    I don't agree with all of the bailout(s), but Romney absolutely went against the Auto industry. Nearly every person relevant to that discussion agrees with me... of special note are the actual company executives. Who said Romney wanted to kill the auto industry.

    Lowering taxes does not create more government revenue. That is patently false. Obama has not over-regulated. We had 8 years of severe under-regulation and we got into this crisis. Now less than 4 years of moderate-to-little regulation hasn't provided enough help. I'm not surprised.

    The democrats did not have a supermajority for the first two years. That is 100%, factually incorrect. Absolutely false. And the issue of non-cooperation is NOT on the president's shoulders. Obama has been trying to work with republicans, BUT THEY ARE BEING MORE OBSTRUCTIONIST THAN ANYONE EVER IN CONGRESS. IN ALL OF US HISTORY. That means that THEY are the ones not working with Obama. That's what that means.

    Look, I really enjoy discussions like this, but I have to say this topic is spreading out a bit too much for me to continue to respond to. I don't have all that much time to respond on Sharenator, and that is why my responses are coming more slowly. Would you mind narrowing this discussion on Obama on one or two topics for now? I would really appreciate it. You can choose the topics, whatever you want, and I will very happily continue a discussion. Whether they are on Obama, Romney, the economy, anything really. Thanks! Always enjoy debating with you.
    - Logos385 October 19, 2012, 4:46 pm
    Once you can accept the faults of the President, then the debate may continue. I am not sure if you knew this or not, but Bush has not been president for almost 4 years. How is it you can still find the time to blame a former president but have no issue not admitting to the current administrations faults. As of now, you like so many other democrats are just making excuses for Obama just like Obama is doing for his first term.

    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

    ― Albert Einstein
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 5:41 pm
    I am completely willing to accept the President's faults.

    He did not act quickly enough on Don't Ask Don't Tell and has not done enough for gay rights in this country. He hasn't been hard enough on the Republican minority, and has tried far too hard to work with them and over-compromised when their entire agenda was to run him out of office. He hasn't done nearly enough for gun laws in this country (as in, he's done NOTHING, aside from allowing guns to be carried on trains now.) He doesn't call out his opposition on their blatant lies. He expanded the faith-based initiative.

    I disagree with him on a lot of things, and what it boils down to is that he isn't progressive enough of a President for me. Just because I don't find the same faults with him as you do, doesn't mean I don't find faults. Now please, get back to this discussion, and stop quoting Albert Einstein to a physics major.
    - Logos385 October 20, 2012, 2:58 pm
    Yet you want to do the same thing again and expect different results. That's why I keep quoting him to all people who want to do the same thing and expect it to be different.

    Also why you against guns??? I love my styer aug with acog and beta mag. God have mercy on the man who breaks into my home, I won't.
    - johnecash October 20, 2012, 4:58 pm
    I expect much better results than going against every moral and intelligent fiber in my body...? That's a bad question.

    And I'm not against guns, I'm just for proper regulation. Big difference.
    - Logos385 October 21, 2012, 1:02 am
    Do you have moral issues against a balanced budget or state rights. That's what a vote for Romney is for.
    - johnecash October 21, 2012, 1:35 am
    Romney does not present a balanced budget. He hasn't presented any details, and his plan is projected to leave a gigantic deficit. And nothing against state's rights. But yes against social injustice.
    - Logos385 October 21, 2012, 3:38 am
    Romney has a proven track record of balancing budgets.obama has a proven track record of spending
    - johnecash October 21, 2012, 2:02 pm
    Oh, you mean how Romney left MA with a structural deficit and with a ranking of 47/50 in job creation per state?

    Spending is important, pretty much all economists agree, in a crisis.
    - Logos385 October 21, 2012, 6:06 pm
    It's hard to make new jobs when the state in question had almost full employment . I could only wish Romney lease the national treasury like he did his states, with a surplus. I can only hope unemployment is as low for the entire US as it was when he was gov. And yet you want to continue down a spending path by a man who is out of his element. Just spending money does not fix the problem.
    - johnecash October 21, 2012, 8:30 pm
    Romney's unemployment was above the national average. In the bad way. To say Obama is "out of his element" is to be disingenuous. He was not a fantastic governor, and his business record consists of running a multination group of vultures. He was a bully as a young man, does not have hardly any concrete opinions, does not respect women, and has the same economic policy as Bush. Yes, that's why I bring it up... because he would enact essentially the same economic formula of the Bush administration. Which... well. You know.

    I'm pretty much done with this conversation.
    - Logos385 October 22, 2012, 12:23 am
    I am sorry you are just a cog in the liberal machine. What a wonderful example you have set for other liberals. Facts don't matter, only your opinion. And your opinion is nothing more than pushing the party line. I truly feel sorry for you and any who just push the party line. Its never wise to put the party before the country.
    - johnecash October 22, 2012, 9:39 am
    I am someone who prides myself on his use of reason and factual backing. So please, what have I said that is factually inaccurate?
    - Logos385 October 22, 2012, 9:54 am
    I have tried by just as you are done for the liberal machine. You have been given many facts, and more often than not you have said "I don't want to talk about it." My only warning to you is Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”
    - johnecash October 22, 2012, 10:06 am
    So once again you are making a claim and refusing to support it, yet stating that you have evidence. This is sickening. Yet you say I am the one without factual support?

    Let's start with one lie you keep repeating: that Obama had a supermajority for the first two years. This, like I said, is blatantly false. The 111th Congress had a senate where there were 59 Senators voting Democratic (2 were Independents, 57 Democratic), and 41 Senators voting Republican. I cite Wikipedia because it has a nice little graphic under the "party summary" tab, and because their source is reliable. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress#section_6
    - Logos385 October 22, 2012, 10:21 am
    No I give up on you due to not even facts being able to change your mine. It's ok, you have been indoctornated by the liberal machine. It's not good when either side has you pulling for the party and not the country.
    - johnecash October 22, 2012, 12:11 pm
    I think you misunderstand how much the president does. He's been reduced in power to a figurehead or just a scapegoat. Sure he is in charge of the military but the Joint Chiefs give him options to choose from and Congress does what they please, which is generally not bipartisanship but who can piss further with their money. It all comes down to money runs our country, so big companies with their lobbyists and other countries who either buy our debts or house the companies that these congressman make money off of are the ones who are really in power. Bush pushed after Bin Laden and switched real quick to Saddam just because we were there and made a lot of money off his oil companies who had so many shortages in spite of the Alaskan Reserves and many opportunities for shale coal. The fact that america put Saddam and Bin Laden in power by training and supplying them over the years, then acting suprised that they came at us after we screwed them over is depressing to account for how our government does business. I believe Obama has tried and that no president can fix America. Congress needs reform and money shouldn't be the most talked about factor in candidacy prelims. Romney admitted to paying a smaller % than most of Americans on taxes and said it was fair. I hate politics and think the news has people rehashing things that didn't happen. Sorry for my bouncing rant, this screen is small, but as a final go, don't watch Fox News they are political radicals...just saying, google your stuff like a boss.
    - knilore October 22, 2012, 2:44 pm
    You have yet to present one iota of proof of said "facts." Your posts look like you wrote the Closed Captioning for Romney's Political Ads. Romney and Ryan keep saying vague outlines of what they plan but have yet to actually give any general specifics of said Plan. Seems they must believe in the Big Bang Theory, "A wild Plan has appeared!"
    - knilore October 22, 2012, 3:02 pm
    Facts do and have changed my mind quite often. I repeat, NAME A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR I have made. I have named and shown one you have made. You have not done the same. Any intellectual discussion warrants source and fact. You simply can't discuss anything well until you explain yourself. Which you have not done. Stop being ridiculous and be specific.
    - Logos385 October 22, 2012, 3:27 pm
    Well you have a choice? Keep the going down the path to Greece we are taking, or try and save the sinking ship with some one who has experience doing just that.
    - johnecash October 22, 2012, 3:31 pm
    Funny thing about facts. Depending on how you look at them depends on what they mean. I agree with you that Romney had one of the worst states for job creation. Now a liberal is done with that fact and does not look at the other side. I never said your facts were wrong, only that you seem to look at it from a very democratic way that is insane. You know who you are voting for, your mind is closed to the other side. You feel the path we are taking is better than the path Romney wants to take us.

    1. So please address why the keystone pipe line that could help this country is a bad idea again?

    2. Why is it other countries who have a larger wealth gap than we do have less citizens incarcerated? If it was due only to the wealth gap, then why do places that are worse off than the US not have the same % of the population in prison.

    3. You continue to blame Bush. Why? Is he a more powerful president than Obama? Is he so powerful that even after 4 years of obama, you still blame Bush? Hell why not blame Clinton for allowing housing and banking regulations to happen as they did.

    4. I am not going to argue over majority or super majority. I think we can agree there was a majority. Even with a majority the president could not do what he PROMISED he was going to do. No matter if the republicans were not working with him, he can not work with them. Thats a fact and not up for debate. You want a president who can not work with 1/2 of Washington. Insanity.

    And lets get to some of the broken promises too;
    1. Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers

    2. Expand the child and dependent care credit

    3. Create a foreclosure prevention fund for homeowners

    4. Provide option for a pre-filled-out tax form

    5. Create a mortgage interest tax credit for non-itemizers

    6. Require automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans

    7. Require automatic enrollment in IRA plans

    8. Create a retirement savings tax credit for low incomes

    9. End income tax for seniors making less than $50,000

    10. End no-bid contracts above $25,000

    11. Create a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges (One of my personal favorites since it effected my business. A small business where I have not been able to hire a secretary in the last 3 years. But hey I didn't build that according to Obama. On the bright side of the 4,500 real estate appraisers in the state of Alabama in 2007, I am one of the remaining 2,200 that still have a job no thanks to Obama.

    12. Repeal the Bush tax cuts for higher incomes (i love how you blame bush but don't blame obama for keeping policies made by bush)

    13. Phase out exemptions and deductions for higher earners (another example of obama saying what ever it takes to get the little guys vote, yet he forgot about us once in office)

    14. Sign the Employee Free Choice Act, making it easier for workers to unionize

    15. Forbid companies in bankruptcy from giving executives bonuses (Yet another broken promise to the people)

    16. Allow workers to claim more in unpaid wages and benefits in bankruptcy court

    17. Allow imported prescription drugs

    18. Prevent drug companies from blocking generic drugs

    19. Allow Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices

    20. Appoint federal-level coordinator to oversee all federal autism efforts (He will say anything to get votes)

    21. Double federal funding for cancer research

    22. Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives

    23. Provide the CDC $50 million in new funding to determine the most effective approaches for cancer patient care

    24. Fully fund the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)

    25. Create a National Commission on People with Disabilities, Employment, and Social Security

    26. Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts.

    27. Reduce the threshhold for the Family and Medical Leave Act from companies with 50 employees to companies with 25 employees

    28. Provide a $1.5 billion fund to help states launch programs for paid family and medical leave

    29. Require employers to provide seven paid sick days per year (Would some of my stevedore friends on the docs like this. Well Obama lost some hard working salt of the earth votes on this one. )

    30. Form international group to help Iraq refugees

    31. Expand the Family Medical Leave Act to include leave for domestic violence or sexual assault

    32. Work with Russia to move nuclear weapons off hair-trigger alert. (Due to all that Obama has promised, we are no safer now than we were during the Cuban missile crisis.

    33. Close the Guantanamo Bay Detention Center (I love how he is still making this promise )

    34. Develop an alternative to President Bush's Military Commissions Act on handling detainees (yet again liberals blame bush when obama has changed nothing )

    35. Strengthen the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and double its budget in the next four years

    36. Secure ratification of the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty (CTBT)

    37. Seek to negotiate a political agreement on Cyprus

    38. Reinstate special envoy for the Americas

    39. Double the Peace Corps

    40. Seek independent watchdog agency to investigate congressional ethics violations (only a fool would believe this one)

    41. Create a public "Contracts and Influence" database(more lies about wanting government transparency)

    42. Expose Special Interest Tax Breaks to Public Scrutiny (why would he expose them, they work with him and for him)

    43. Allow five days of public comment before signing bills

    44. Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials

    45. Double funding for Federal Charter School Program and require more accountability

    46. Double funding for afterschool programs

    47. Expand the Employment Non-Discrimination Act to include sexual orientation and gender identity

    48. Urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws

    49. Support repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)

    50. Sign the Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act into law

    51. Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage

    52. Increase the minimum wage to $9.50 an hour (he would rather tax you more than have you earn more)

    53. Restore Superfund program so that polluters pay for clean-ups

    54. Support tax deduction for artists

    55. Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council(the president who killed our space program. but hey we can get a ride from russia. . . for a price.)

    56. Support human mission to moon by 2020 (This guy is crazy, just like his promises. )

    57. Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit (hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha)

    58. Reduce the number of middle managers in the federal workforce (there is one thing the democrats have never been known fore, smaller government)

    59. Strengthen the Age Discrimination in Employment Act

    60. Limit term of director of national intelligence

    61. Give annual "State of the World" address

    62. Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels

    63. Work to ban the permanent replacement of striking workers

    64. Establish a low carbon fuel standard

    65. Enact windfall profits tax for oil companies

    66. Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming

    67. Use revenue from cap and trade to support clean energy and environmental restoration

    68. Require plug-in fleet at the White House

    69. Require new federal fleet purchases to be half plug-in hybrids or electric vehicles

    70. Require more flex-fuel cars for the federal government

    71. Mandate flexible fuel vehicles by 2012

    72. Double federal program to help "reverse" commuters who go from city to suburbs

    73. Require energy conservation in use of transportation dollars

    74. Provide an annual report on "state of our energy future"

    75. Devote federal resources to promote cellulosic ethanol

    76. Sign the Freedom of Choice Act

    77. Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009

    78. Give the White House's Privacy and Civil Liberties Board subpoena power

    79. Recognize the Armenian genocide

    80. No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase." (now this was a promise that has been very hard to watch him lie about. This time 5 years ago I had a secretary and an apprentice.

    81. Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN

    82. Create a public option health plan for a new National Health Insurance Exchange.

    83. Cut the cost of a typical family's health insurance premium by up to $2,500 a year

    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda
    84. Bring Democrats and Republicans together to pass an agenda

    85. Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year

    I have to go now. I have to work in order to pay for obamas debt. Or the list could go on to 150 lies or even 200. Everything I have listed is a lie. He has promised us everything, the sun, the moon and the stars. He lied about it all. The reason he lied does not matter. All that matters is not matter what you want, he will promise it to you.

    ( but during the debate he blamed it on terrorist yet here is blaming a video )
    Even CNN (Clinton News Network) calls bs on his lies

    Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

    I love this video

    ― Albert Einstein

    None the less there is good news for a liberal who has been brainwashed by the machine. But you have to want to not be brainwashed.
    - johnecash October 22, 2012, 5:06 pm
    I will address your list over the period of a few days. For now, I will say that you stated that "facts don't matter to me." I then said I disagreed and asked you to provide example. You showed no such case, whereas I showed a case of a blatant lie that you have repeated.

    It is true that I disagree with Romney, but that does not mean I am insane. I am an informed, contributing member of society, just like you, and much of what you said was ad hominem and deplorable. Facts are obviously important, and I do my best to look at all sides of an argument and assess the situation thereafter. Despite what you blindly and so unfoundedly continue to assume.
    - Logos385 October 22, 2012, 8:12 pm
    After a quick check, your entire list came from the completely unreliable Politifact.com. I will not respond to the tactic of copy and paste, attempting to overwhelm me. Pick issues that you care about, and we can discuss them. Right now, I care that you lied about a supermajority. I care that you can't point out how Romney's economic policy is different from Bush's. I care about how Romney does not protect the rights of women.

    I have picked 3. Now you pick 3. I admit Obama has not fulfilled all of his promises. Of course he hasn't, no President has. But the choice we are facing is between Romney and Obama, not between Obama and what Obama said he would be. Like I said, I don't support a lot of what Obama has done or will do, but I sure as hell would rather have him than Romney.

    Furthermore, if you don't stop personal attacks, implied or otherwise, there's no reason for this to continue.
    - Logos385 October 22, 2012, 10:58 pm
    You have a list of lies, where you start on them is up to you.
    - johnecash October 23, 2012, 9:43 am
    Well, if you refuse to engage in any kind of reasonable discussion:
    Romney told 533 lies in 30 weeks. Here's the list: "

    "You've been given a list of lies, where you start on them is up to you."

    Or you can decide to be reasonable for once and actually discuss the issues at hand instead of resorting to obviously desperate, sideways tactics. So please, as I keep asking you to do. Pick something to focus on.
    - Logos385 October 23, 2012, 10:10 am
    Number one on your list is a lie, I hope the rest is better. Well get to that list. Please try and stay on topic at hand.
    - johnecash October 23, 2012, 10:32 am
    So- good. Let's focus on that. How is it a lie? What evidence do you have? This is how discussions go. You make a claim and support it with evidence.
    - Logos385 October 23, 2012, 11:35 am
    As I said we will get to your list once the list I asked you to go over is explained. One topic at a time.
    - johnecash October 23, 2012, 11:40 am
    I will gladly trade 1 to 1 going down the lists. But before we start, we need to make an important distinction. I acknowledge that Obama did not fulfill all of his campaign promises. Do you acknowledge that Romney lies?
    - Logos385 October 23, 2012, 11:55 am
    "1. Increase the capital gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers"

    In Obama's 2013 budget, he proposes to eliminate loopholes for carried interest earnings, and tax carried interest at a standard rate. So, it's late, but it's happening. http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/cutting.pdf

    Now your turn, number one on my list.
    - Logos385 October 23, 2012, 12:06 pm
    The list I gave you are lies Obama promised he would do during his presidency. How can I say Romney has lied about his promises of what he would do if he was president if he has never been president?
    - johnecash October 23, 2012, 2:31 pm
    Obama had the chance to do what he said he was going to do . . . and didn't. Thats a lie no matter how you look at it unless you are going to tell me that when the promise was made, it was meant for the next term? If thats the case we need a leader who can act today, not in four years.

    With 2010 coming to a close, President Obama brokered a major deal on taxes, agreeing to continue the current tax rates for high earners. He said repeatedly during the campaign that he intended to let them expire. The tax rates, passed during President George W. Bush's administration, were set to go up in 2011.

    That would also have meant higher taxes on investment income such as capital gains and dividends. During the campaign, Obama said he wanted higher taxes for these types of income. The tax compromise Obama signed into law continued the current rates on capital gains for another two years.

    We should note that although he gave in on his campaign promise, Obama got some other things in return. The current tax rates were extended for couples who make less than the $250,000 cut-off, and some tax cuts that were part of the 2009 economic stimulus law were also continued. Additionally, Obama won another year of unemployment benefits for workers who qualified, and he won a one-year reduction of Social Security taxes, putting 2 percent of pay back into workers' paychecks.

    Obama said he still opposed keeping the same tax rates for the wealthy, even though he agreed to the extension.
    - johnecash October 23, 2012, 2:35 pm
    Yes, because we have the most obstructionist minority in history. In order to get them to do ANYTHING, he had to make a compromise on what he wanted to do. While still saying that he didn't agree, he had to take the little bit that they would not filibuster into non-existence and use it.

    Furthermore, these clearly aren't lies about what Romney has promised, but lies he has told. Now, address #1 please.

    And an as-of-yet unfulfilled promise is different than a blatant lie. Obama has tried to fulfill many promises, and will fulfill your #1 in the coming year. That is not a lie, that is just delayed action.
    - Logos385 October 23, 2012, 5:19 pm
    So you admit Obama does not do what he promises? You give a wonderful excuse as to why he could not comply with his promise but that's all it is. An excuse. He lied. As we go down the list it will be nothing but excuses as to why he lied. The president has no idea what he is doing and will promise the moon and stars to get your vot, or call acorn. Romney has experience doing what the president promises he can do. Obama can't even balance the budget of the economy, or his own campaign! (Obama's Campaign in $15M Debt, Borrows Money from Bank of America
    Read more at http://www.reagancoalition.com/articles/2012/20121022005-obama-boa.html#V8wmHWETAs6Zr7x1.99 ) but Romney has a history of doing just that.
    - johnecash October 23, 2012, 7:24 pm
    Every politician has promises they don't keep. Obama has kept a remarkable number of promises, but made a remarkable number as well. The first one is an example where he is currently fulfilling a promise. That is not excuse, that is fulfillment.

    Furthermore, actively working towards a stated goal is not a lie. I think you know the difference. Now please address my number 1, without trying to change the subject. Do you admit Romney lied?
    - Logos385 October 24, 2012, 2:02 am
    Can you name one presidential promise that Romney lied about? I can't. Please stop making excuses for Obama. Working toward a promise is not the same as delivering on what was promised. We don't need excuses we need a leader.
    - johnecash October 24, 2012, 9:27 am
    Romney has not had the chance to lie about a promise. That is just a terrible question that is absurd and pointless.

    He has lied about a LOT. A whole mess of stuff. Like I said, not excuses, explanations of reality. Very different things.

    Now, please address my number one and/or admit that Romney lied on that point.
    - Logos385 October 24, 2012, 12:24 pm
    So you feel it seem it worthy to blame and hold agains Romney something that might happen over what has happened? Am I to assume you feel Rodney's data set with no adjustment to importance based off of scale is similar or worse than the current presidents failures? If this is true Romney historical ability to balance budgets, vs Obama ability to balance his own campaign budget not mentioning the national one, should be all you need to know. One can't balance a checkbook, the other will leave you with money in the bank.
    - johnecash October 24, 2012, 2:37 pm
    That is not the point I am making. And you know that. Address the point I am making:

    That Romney has lied thousands of times in over 500 ways during his campaign. Not about future things, but about the present and the past. This is without considering future broken promises. Can you trust a man like that to lead a nation?

    Romney left Mass with a structural deficit and employment above the national average. Your only data set on Obama and budgets is a very small 4-year period where he started with a gigantic debt and a gigantic deficit. Not even close to a good sample size to base conclusions on.
    - Logos385 October 24, 2012, 3:16 pm
    Now i know you are insane, but not by my definition. There is no better data out there to predict what Obama will do the next four years than what he did during the last 4 years. This would be the only "one to one or apples vs apples" comparison . Obama can't even balance the budget on his own campaign. You want to do the same thing again and are hoping for different results.
    - johnecash October 24, 2012, 4:45 pm
    Ad hominem attacks are not useful. Please refrain from them.

    And to make accurate predictions you need adequate sample sizes. 4 years is a small sample size for an economy, as any economist will agree. Furthermore, assuming nothing new will happen in the last 4 years of a President's reign is willfully ignorant.

    Now, please respond to my #1. You are poorly equivocating and refusing to address my point. That is the next part of our discussion, and I will not continue until you do.
    - Logos385 October 24, 2012, 5:04 pm
    Your abilit to ignore what the man promised what he did and their direct correlation as to what he will continue to do can only be explained by two words: fan boy. May I ask what you do for a living? Certified appraiser here. Comparing is what I do for a living.
    - johnecash October 24, 2012, 5:55 pm
    "Now, please respond to my #1. You are poorly equivocating and refusing to address my point. That is the next part of our discussion, and I will not continue until you do."
    - Logos385 October 25, 2012, 11:11 am
    We don't live in the same world. You live in a world where the last 4 years didn't happen and don't count when it comes to the president. Sorry I can't talk with people who ignore the last four years. They are insane.
    - johnecash October 25, 2012, 11:25 am
    I am not ignoring the last 4 years, and continued ad hominem is not helping your argument. Respond to my #1, and we can continue.
    - Logos385 October 25, 2012, 5:42 pm
    By saying the last four years is not the single best way, bar none, when it comes to Obama and what he can do working with others is wearing your fanboy glasses, please take them off.
    - johnecash October 25, 2012, 10:10 pm
    Ad hominem, rude, and not "civil" like your own OP dictates. Shape up, and answer my #1.
    - Logos385 October 26, 2012, 10:27 am
    As I said your turn will be after mine. So lets get to talking about the president, then his challenger. The first question you should be asking is should he stay? Well lets look at his record.
    - johnecash October 26, 2012, 1:47 pm
    I will not engage in a discussion where you get to define every parameter and direction. You chose to bring overwhelming lists of faults into the discussion, so I am doing likewise. I addressed one off of your list, you address one off of mine. Only sensible.
    - Logos385 October 26, 2012, 6:29 pm
  • 1

    You know i really think you're much to die hard republican. i'm for whoever is making the better choices and based off everything that has been said in all the debates i can safely say i'm voting obama. the major issue i see actually isn't even the economy (though it is second on my list) the top most priority should be environmental issues (i know i'm about to catch so heat for this but give me a minute) the reason is simple, fix this now and we won't have to have real suffering in the future. obama is progressive compared to Mitt in this area. supporting clean energy (that mean zero coal, oil, and natural gas which despite its claim is not a clean energy. it is simply cleaner, not clean) by getting out wind and solar energy technology to a point that we don't need gas and oil we will effectively create a much stronger economy which isn't as heavily reliant on one industry.
    now aside from that can can you tell me what Mitts plan for the economy is? i'm actually curious cause he keeps saying the same five things over and over but never expands on it. besides that those "loop holes" he wants to close aren't nearly enough to make this economy strong and off set his proposed spending. i get that he's a business man and shit but what in the hell is he going to do? i don't see any chance that the spending of another 8 trillion (even i think thats a high estimate so i'll say it's more likely 7-5 trillion) is going to help us.
    and one final point. obama had no chance of turning the economy around in four years, not with congress blocking a majority of his bills. it just wasn't going to happen. but despite that he did fix it. now before you say he didn't think of this. if a bone breaks you have to set it first, now this will cause pain but in the long run it will heal much better. thats whats going on right now. yes it was a rough few years, but the economy was broken. obama has set it and put it in the cast, but it needs more time to heal than people are willing to give it. so we have a choice right now, cut the cast off and hope that it's healed but also risk fucking it up worse, or wait and let us make sure that it is in perfect condition, that way we can save ourselves the pain and suffering of having to reset the bone again and start all over. my choice is to leave it in a little longer. you can bitch about it all you want but in the long run its the better option. Mitt is a short term fix, Obama will lead us to a better more secure future.

    The last four years would disagree. I am not voting for Romney as much as I am voting against Obama. My guy is Ron Paul. Remember;
    “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

    ― Albert Einstein
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 12:31 pm
    When it comes to environmentalist i will let the late great George Carlin speak for me;

    None the less if thats what you want I must ask, how is China's record when it comes to the environment? I am sorry to be the one who points this out, but without a strong economy, there is no strong environmentalism.

    As a man who works in real estate the economy is WAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY fucked. When people stop loosing the value of their homes, then lets talk.

    To your last point, Obama had no chance of turning the economy around in four years, not with congress blocking a majority of his bills. Did you forget that he had the super majority in both the house and senate for the first two years? Also he said he could fix it. He lied. And when it comes to secure future, what has he done to make you think that? what? I can't think of a single thing. Employment just NOW came down below 8%. Just now. He has promised by this time it would be below 6%. So I ask again, or what he said he was going to do, what has he done, besides run up a debt larger than all other debts that all other presidents ever had. . . COMBINED.
    - johnecash October 18, 2012, 3:38 pm
    Do you have any idea how much replacing oil and coal with solar energy would be? We don't even have the technology anywhere near good enough to do that yet. And it's not like Obama is really pushing for that, either, unless you count raising gas prices so high that people literally can't afford to drive. I'm not saying it wouldn't be good, but it's just totally unrealistic in the near future.

    Obama has not set the economy in a cast; my college prices are going up, gas prices are going up, literally every expense I have has gone up with Obama as president. I can't even afford the dentist anymore and despite being so poor, I don't get any government aid under Obama anyways so its not like if Romney cuts that I'll be losing out. I'm not saying Romney will be any better but if things continue the way they are I'm about to be living under a bridge some where with the rest of my friends who are in the same situation. Obama wants to keep spending and increase government control, Romney wants to give more power to the states(more efficient) and decrease the size of the national government(less money spent).
    - casper667 October 19, 2012, 6:14 am
    everyone keeps saying obama double this obama doubled that. honestly it's bullshit, he's a scape goat compared to congress. he has less control over the economy than people think. and aside from that what about Romney? you can't keep saying that Obama will spend more when Romenys own plan will increase it by 5 trillion dollars. trust me i feel the college pain as well but at the same time i'm willing to wait a while for the economy to finish its repairs. like i said this stuff takes time, no man could have fixed that in 4 years no matter what you say. given more time i believe Obama would be able to actually do something about it, but again it needs more time. in a fast pace world like this people aren't willing to wait anymore, hell i bet most people on this site have a mini melt down when the internet has trouble loading. sorry but this needs patients.
    now aside from that people are again focused on the economy only, there are other issues and in most cases i think obama has Romney flat out beat. you mentioned how much it would cost to do that right now, but who says it's meant to be right now? we need to build the technology up in order to make that transition, this again takes time but right now is the time to give them funding, let them grow, and in the long run we can and will have the technology to actually survive. oil and coal are finite sources of energy, and we dont have much more time left with those as our main energy sources. you talk about being realistic, well this is real. we fuck up this planet much more and this economy won't even matter. we won't have the resources to repair it, the technology to repair it, or the man power to repair it. we need a better way to survive at this point. we need to move beyond these methods right now and move on to something else. we have the ability to do that, we have a shot at it so we need to take it. this could be the only time in human history that we have the chance to harness natural resources with out completely fucking up the planet.
    basically my ideals look more at what we can do to benefit in the future rather than at this moment. and right now thats what we need.
    - 24paperwings October 19, 2012, 9:44 am
    Obama promised to cut the deficit in half in four years, instead he ran up a bigger bill than all other presidential deficit combined. You say he needs more time. Thats not what Obama said when he was elected. So you think we should do the same thing again this time and expect different results?
    “Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over again, but expecting different results.”

    ― Albert Einstein

    Obama had his chance, even had 2 years where he owned the house and the senate. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. Those who vote for him are Albert Einstein definition of insane. As for the environment, please see the video above from the late great George Carlin.
    As for running out of fossil fuel, in 1978 we were told we only have 30 years left of oil. Almost 35 years ago we were told we only have 30 years left. . . look like they got that one wrong.
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 10:03 am
  • 1

    a few days ago I saw a debate and I think obama did pretty good he seemed very confident.
    But still romney got some "redneck" votes because he wants no illegal immigrants and stuff like that.
    I would vote for obama if I could at this moment because of how he reacted and responded to some offending things.

    • Vans
    • October 19, 2012, 8:42 pm
    So you want illegal immigration? You think that is fair to those who went threw proper immigration? A vote for Obama is a vote for higher taxes, larger federal government and less state rights. That's what you want?
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 9:21 pm
    God no but you can handle it better than just take everyone who could be illegal and let him show his papers every time and send everyone back home immediately and punish everyone who gave him a job
    - Vans October 19, 2012, 10:15 pm
    I am not living in the US
    and your question was about the freaking debates. I saw one debate and thought obama was better that is all.
    And I dont even care we have 19% taxes so stop crying like little bitches oh god 4 dollar for a hole gallon so guess what we have to pay about 10 dollars. If you want your country to run out of money and drown in debts like all the other countries we are helping right now well have fun.
    - Vans October 19, 2012, 10:17 pm
    also what you call "proper immigration" is just luck. You have to get a green card that is all I tried it a couple of times, paid a bunch of money and didnt get anything because it is just a freaking lottery.
    - Vans October 19, 2012, 10:18 pm
    Think of what you want to say then edit your last post. I truly have no idea what you are saying.
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 10:25 pm
    No one said it was easy. If you truly want to live here a college degree and skill helps a lot.
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 10:28 pm
    So people who break the rules should not be punished?
    - johnecash October 19, 2012, 10:28 pm
  • 1

    The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries, which result, gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of Public Liberty.

    George Washington

    • Aorbous
    • October 22, 2012, 3:07 am
  • 0

    I honestly don't care much about politics, BUT all this bitching about one side being "rude" to the other, in a DEBATE is just completely childish.

    "He's not acting like a VP"

    What IS a VP?
    & for that matter what's any politician?
    What, he's too rude/mean to be VP? But it's totally fine for all these other politician that have been guilty of having an affair, lying, cheating, been bribed, guilty of fraud, incarcerated, plagiarizing, guilty of perjury...& the list goes on.
    So if all you have to say about biden is that he was being a mean old man, please kill yourself.
    & if you're going to say that he lies, well than by that logic, he'd make a great VP.

    Go kill myself? That statement alone says a lot about who you are.
    - johnecash October 22, 2012, 9:43 am
    Wasn't directed at you specifically, just anyone that said that biden isn't acting like a vp should.
    - thekitkatkid October 22, 2012, 7:00 pm
    Yeah I think the vp should not act like a child. He can't debate with his own people and you think this is a good way to talk to people about your differences?
    - johnecash October 22, 2012, 7:49 pm
    He did not act like a child. When your opponent lies openly to the public, it is your JOB as a VP to make him look as ridiculous as the lie is.
    - Logos385 October 24, 2012, 12:26 pm
    So this is the image, that of a pissed off teen, you feel is acceptable for the US. Uncle joe told a few fibs there and Ryan didn't act he was in some high school argument. Just imagine if uncle joe could get as fired up over the state of the economy.
    - johnecash October 24, 2012, 2:29 pm
    He did not look like a pissed off teen. He just wasn't taking the BS Ryan was spouting.
    - Logos385 October 24, 2012, 3:22 pm
    Always an excuse, never admitting the faults of your people. As I said we need leaders not excuses.
    - johnecash October 24, 2012, 4:37 pm
    Repeating an argument is not the same as responding to mine. I have admitted multiple faults of the Obama administration, you have admitted none of Romney himself. You simply don't understand how discussions work.
    - Logos385 October 24, 2012, 5:02 pm
    You have admitted what faults, refresh my memory.
    - johnecash October 24, 2012, 7:12 pm
    "I am completely willing to accept the President's faults.

    He did not act quickly enough on Don't Ask Don't Tell and has not done enough for gay rights in this country. He hasn't been hard enough on the Republican minority, and has tried far too hard to work with them and over-compromised when their entire agenda was to run him out of office. He hasn't done nearly enough for gun laws in this country (as in, he's done NOTHING, aside from allowing guns to be carried on trains now.) He doesn't call out his opposition on their blatant lies. He expanded the faith-based initiative.

    I disagree with him on a lot of things, and what it boils down to is that he isn't progressive enough of a President for me. Just because I don't find the same faults with him as you do, doesn't mean I don't find faults."


    "Obama has not fulfilled all of his promises. Of course he hasn't, no President has."


    "Every politician has promises they don't keep"
    - Logos385 October 25, 2012, 11:15 am
    So you don't disagree with all of his lies, like about the economy and jobs? I love how your last statement is an excuse to try and justify his mistakes. So you have no issue with his lie on the national debt or his lie on unemployment. You seem to be more worried about gun control than you are with jobs.
    - johnecash October 25, 2012, 11:22 am
    You are using the term "lie" very loosely. A "lie" is an intentionally false statement. Obama did not intentionally fail in those particular promises, so they aren't lies.

    In terms of failed promises, however, I agree, it sucks. I would love the unemployment, deficit, and debt to all be lower. However, I fully believe that had Obama been allowed to pass what he wanted to, instead of being met by the most obstructionist minority ever, things would be much, much better. That is what I am hoping for from this next election season.
    - Logos385 October 25, 2012, 5:45 pm
    Nothing but excuses as to why the last four years didn't matter to you. None the less lets play your game. If he didn't mean for these things to happen he is incapable of performing his duties. As of now you are fighting for some one who is unable to fulfill his promises due to incompetence... And you want four more years? You are a trying to dothe same thing over again and hoping for different results. As a small business owner, four mour years of doing the same thing is just not good business. It's insane. Please take off your rather thick fanboy glasses.
    - johnecash October 25, 2012, 6:28 pm
    What I am hoping for is Obama to get a super majority so that he can actually attempt to help the American people. The congressional minority did not attempt to help the American people for the past 4 years, they attempted to delay Obama. That is terrible politics, and a solid reason to vote against the Republican party this election year.
    - Logos385 October 25, 2012, 9:25 pm
    So as is you know he can't get anything done and you still vote for him. Classic case of voting for the party and not the country. Yet Romney has a history of being able to work with both sides.
    - johnecash October 25, 2012, 10:06 pm
    He did not get a chance to institute the policies he wanted to because the Republicans were downright awful. That is not his fault, nor should he be blamed for it.

    And I hate this "Romney has a history of working with both sides" meme. It's just not true. If you mean he has a history of having no solid opinions, allowing him to claim practically any viewpoint, then maybe.
    - Logos385 October 26, 2012, 10:25 am
    ***He did not get a chance to institute the policies he wanted to because the Republicans were downright awful. That is not his fault, nor should he be blamed for it.

    Thank you for bringing up a wonderful point. No one will deny he wanted more. Thats why Obama made so many promises. None the less he can't work with the other side so now we have all the broken promises that the president was unable to deliver on either due to . . . i'll leave the excuses up to you. I know this process is about YOUR GUY and YOUR GUY ALONE, but its not. The three branches of our government are like a team. If the team can't play well together, no matter how great the superstar, the team can't play. As of now your superstar has issues, his fault or not they are still his issues, working for the team, and thats not good for the country. Romney's record of being able to work with the other side is much better than the current administration.

    ***And I hate this "Romney has a history of working with both sides" meme. It's just not true. If you mean he has a history of having no solid opinions, allowing him to claim practically any viewpoint, then maybe.

    I know you do. After Obama promised us bipartisanship and failed to delivered, its hard to see some one you don't like, due to their party, being the answer that Obama can not give us. Some times the facts, no matter how badly YOU don't want them to be true are painful.


    The Debt rose $4.899 trillion during the two terms of the Bush presidency. It has now gone up $4.939 trillion since President Obama took office.

    The latest posting from the Bureau of Public Debt at the Treasury Department shows the National Debt now stands at $15.566 trillion. It was $10.626 trillion on President Bush's last day in office, which coincided with President Obama's first day, you when he promised to cut it in half. No excuse changes the fact that he was unable to work for the good of the country and not do what he promised.

    The National Debt also now exceeds 100% of the nation's Gross Domestic Product, the total value of goods and services.

    Mr. Obama has been quick to blame his predecessor for the soaring Debt, saying Mr. Bush paid for two wars and a Medicare prescription drug program with borrowed funds.

    The federal budget sent to Congress last month by Mr. Obama, projects the National Debt will continue to rise as far as the eye can see. The budget shows the Debt hitting $16.3 trillion in 2012, $17.5 trillion in 2013 and $25.9 trillion in 2022.

    Federal budget records show the National Debt once topped 121% of GDP at the end of World War II. The Debt that year, 1946, was, by today's standards, a mere $270 billion dollars.

    Mr. Obama doesn't mention the National Debt much, though he does want to be seen trying to reduce the annual budget deficit, though it's topped a trillion dollars for four years now.

    As part of his "Win the Future" program, Mr. Obama called for "taking responsibility for our deficits, by cutting wasteful, excessive spending wherever we find it."

    His latest budget projects a $1.3 trillion deficit this year declining to $901 billion in 2012, and then annual deficits in the range of $500 billion to $700 billion in the 10 years to come.

    If Mr. Obama wins re-election, and his budget projections prove accurate, the National Debt will top $20 trillion in 2016, the final year of his second term. That would mean the Debt increased by 87 percent, or $9.34 trillion, during his two terms.


    Now what about Romney? Mitt Romney Entered Office Facing A $3 Billion Budget Shortfall And Left The State With A $2 Billion Rainy Day Fund:

    Governor Romney Closed A Nearly $3 Billion Shortfall Without Raising Taxes And Balanced Four Budgets. “When Mitt Romney became governor of Massachusetts in 2003, the state had a budget gap of almost $3 billion and was losing thousands of jobs a month. In Mr. Romney’s four-year tenure, the deficit was eliminated without raising the sales tax or the income tax, and since the labor slump hit bottom in December 2003, the state has gained 81,000 jobs.” (Pam Belluck, "Romney Candidacy Puts Massachusetts Economy In Spotlight," The New York Times, 3/16/07)

    Governor Romney Left More Than $2 Billion In The State’s Rainy Day Fund. “Yet much good conservative work was done on his watch: restructuring and streamlining of state government, the elimination of a $3 billion deficit and the addition of $2 billion to a ‘rainy day’ fund, and reducing red tape for small businesses - all without raising taxes or adding to state debt.” (Editorial, “Vote For Romney On Saturday,” Charleston Post & Courier, 1/20/12)

    Yet despite of being unable to implement his plans, and the fact that Romney has, you vote for your party and not the country. I too would love to live in yours and Obama's dream world. Its sounds wonderful, but here I am stuck living life the way it is, in reality.
    - johnecash October 26, 2012, 2:15 pm
    I believe your analysis of reality is fundamentally incorrect.

    To show this, we shall treat any one of Obama's unfulfilled promises as a premise of an argument, "U."

    Essentially your argument is that,

    If P(resident) has U, then P is incapable of adequately improving America.
    Obama has U.
    Obama is P.
    So, Obama is incapable of adequately improving America.

    However, this argument ignores completely outside influence. Our American political system is designed SPECIFICALLY so that any minorities still have a voice. That means that if a minority has a sole objective of preventing a President's reelection, while ignoring any objective of bettering America, they will probably be successful.

    So, there is a dichotomy. Obama has unfulfilled promises, yes. The dichotomy appears when you consider the reasons for this. Either Obama is a bad leader and incapable of doing the job of a President well, or the minority has disregarded progressing America in favor of stalling the President.

    To assess these two possibilities, we take to the evidence. The current Congressional Minority is the single most obstructionist minority in the history of the US. Ever. Ever ever. They have publicly stated that their goal is to make it so that Pres. Obama is not re-elected, by definition ignoring the goal of progressing America.

    The evidence strongly supports the idea that Obama has been stalled by an uncooperative and obstructionist minority, given a voice by our political system. This means that we have not proven the thesis that Obama is incapable of being the President America needs. So your argument fails.
    - Logos385 October 26, 2012, 6:35 pm
    Yep you said it, Obama can't work with the other side.
    - johnecash October 26, 2012, 7:35 pm
    Thank god. For a while I thought you were actually serious about your posts. But now I see you're just a troll : ). Phew.
    - Logos385 October 26, 2012, 11:28 pm
    How can I troll my own post...? In this case you have been a text book example of a troll.
    - johnecash October 27, 2012, 12:34 am
    The whole post must be trolling. I lay out an entire logical thread. You respond with a sentence purposefully ignoring all of it because either: you don't like the conclusion and you have some preconceived bias against the President; or you are trolling. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here.

    Nothing I have done resembles trolling.

    Do you disagree with the argument I laid out above?
    - Logos385 October 27, 2012, 9:52 am
    Please stop trolling for an argument . Please stay on topic or the conversation is over
    - johnecash October 27, 2012, 10:31 am
    I am staying exactly on topic. I laid out an argument above that is a direct response to one of your main claims: that Obama is a deficient leader. Please address that argument.
    - Logos385 October 27, 2012, 11:38 am
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